Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

Faiakes · 2024-05-31 20:46

Hi all

It's been more than 10 years since I last helped but I'd like to pitch in.

I noticed that when doing upper case of lower case Greek characters, ReNamer tries to keep the punctuation marks, which is not how it works in Greek.

Upper Case Greek characters need to be devoid of punctuation, it should be only the letters themselves.

The only exception is when the lower case letter has a ΅ or a ¨.
Then only the ¨ transfers to upper case form (and it is always an i, so it becomes Ϊ).

Easy, no?

Reference topic: Looking for Greek Translit

Last edited by Faiakes (2024-05-31 20:47)

den4b · 2024-06-04 08:35

Hi, and welcome back!

Can you clarify if you are talking about the built-in Greek translit alphabet, as found in the latest version of ReNamer, or some other mechanism?

Can you provide some examples to better understand the issue?

Faiakes · 2024-06-08 12:37

Hello Denis

Nice to hear from you again!

OK, I have included an example with images.

The images are in order:

1 - Original file
2- UPPER CASE rule
3 - Incorrect output (for Greek UPPER CASE)
4 - Manually corrected output (for Greek UPPER CASE)

Last edited by Faiakes (2024-06-08 12:39)

den4b · 2024-06-13 17:59

So, according to your example screenshots, you have this:

ΑΡΟΝ & Ελένη Φουρέιρα – Γδύσου

Then you apply ReNamer's upper case conversion to get this:

ΑΡΟΝ & ΕΛΈΝΗ ΦΟΥΡΈΙΡΑ – ΓΔΎΣΟΥ

But that is somehow incorrect, and the correct conversion should be this:

ΑΡΟΝ & ΕΛΕΝΗ ΦΟΥΡΕΙΡΑ – ΓΔΥΣΟΥ

I'm not an expert in Greek language, so I can't determine which one is more correct or wrong, but what is puzzling is that any case conversion tool that I tried produced results identical to ReNamer. That is including the Windows operating system itself.

Anyway, one way to get your desired result is to strip all diacritics using the Clean Up rule.

Faiakes · 2024-06-14 19:25

Hi Dennis

Yes, that is correct.
When Greeks upper case their letters they no longer apply accent marks.

I hadn't thought of the Clean Up rule, you are right.

Thanks

den4b · 2024-06-20 16:33

Faiakes wrote:

When Greeks upper case their letters they no longer apply accent marks.

Is this something that has changed recently?

If you can, please provide an official reference that supports this statement.

micos000 · 2025-01-03 22:45

Hi guys and a happy new year.
I use renamer for some time and use it for some batch renaming. I believe that is a fantastic piece of software and the best batch renaming tool i ever use.
I came across to this post when searching for a way to bypass a situation of my own.
To begin with I like to state that capitalized Greek words never use accents and that was happening like, forever. But that has nothing to do with capitalized letters (in the beginning of sentences or in Names) when they can have accent e.g. "έλα" -> "Έλα" -> "ΕΛΑ"

Now to my case.
I wish to continue here because it also have to do with Greek letters.
In Greece, we have that crazy letter "Σ" which change form. In caps it is always "Σ" but in lower case it takes the form of "σ" when in front or in the middle of the word but changes to "ς" when it is on the end of the word and it is named "ending sigma" ("τελικό σίγμα").
Now the problem is in case changing from capitalized to any other case with lower letters. e.g.
The word "ΣΕΙΣΜΟΣ" must change to "Σεισμός" and not to "Σεισμόσ". Ignore the accent because I know that it can't be added without implement the whole Greek grammar but the ending "σ" is a problem. I can add a rule to change "σ" to "ς" but it is still wrong "Σειςμός".
I think that it can be easily corrected if there is an option in Replace to change the First or Last occurrence in every word, besides the option of First or Last Occurrence in the whole filename. Or, add an option to correct the Greek ending s to the whole batch (cool)

EDIT:
I found a temporary solution.
Replace "σ " with "ς " with Case senstivity. It will do the job fine but keep in mind the option I describe above for the First or Last occurrence in words because it will be helpful in other situations.

Again, thanx for the great software.

Last edited by micos000 (2025-01-03 23:35)

den4b · 2025-01-04 21:34

Happy new year to you too.

micos000 wrote:

I think that it can be easily corrected if there is an option in Replace to change the First or Last occurrence in every word

It sounds like a niche option (not generic enough) which can be applied via a different rule, namely the Regular Expressions rule.

Replace expression "\Bσ\b" with "ς" case sensitive. This will replace "σ" with "ς" only if it is the last letter in a word.

Learn how to use Regular Expressions: https://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Regular_Expressions

micos000 · 2025-01-05 20:03

den4b wrote:

It sounds like a niche option (not generic enough) which can be applied via a different rule, namely the Regular Expressions rule.
Replace expression "\Bσ\b" with "ς" case sensitive. This will replace "σ" with "ς" only if it is the last letter in a word.
Learn how to use Regular Expressions: https://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Regular_Expressions

Oh, nice!
This works fine. I never used regular expressions before but I think that I must start messing with them. I tried before I post but I was using /bσ/b but didn't work. I just didn't quiet understand the difference between /b and /B?

den4b · 2025-01-06 11:17

micos000 wrote:

I just didn't quiet understand the difference between \b and \B?

"\b" matches a word boundary, which is the position between a word character and a non-word character, or at the start/end of the string.

"\B" matches any position that is not a word boundary.

So in expression "\Bσ\b", the letter "σ" must be preceded by a word character and followed by a non-word character or the end of string.

Reference: https://www.den4b.com/wiki/ReNamer:Regu … boundaries

den4b Forum

#1 2024-05-31 20:46

Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#2 2024-06-04 08:35

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#3 2024-06-08 12:37

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#4 2024-06-13 17:59

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#5 2024-06-14 19:25

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#6 2024-06-20 16:33

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#7 2025-01-03 22:45

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#8 2025-01-04 21:34

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#9 2025-01-05 20:03

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

#10 2025-01-06 11:17

Re: Greek transliteration with punctuation marks

Board footer